Building Stacklist
Join Kyle and Martina team as they navigate the exciting journey of building a startup called Stacklist. Dive into the world of entrepreneurship, where maintaining a startup mindset and focusing on user experience are key. Discover insights on building authentic business relationships and learn how these connections can unlock new opportunities. Tune in for engaging discussions on startup life, community building, and innovative product launches.
Building Stacklist
Lazar Ristic Shares His Journey from Graphic Design to Mobile Lead
In this episode of "Building Stacklist," hosts Kyle and Martina are joined by Lazar Ristic as they kick off the new year with reflections, predictions, and plans for the future of Stacklist.
Dive into the journey of building a startup, where speed, innovation, and user experience are at the forefront. Lazar shares his transition from graphic design to leading mobile development with a focus on optimizing development speed using Flutter.
The team discusses goals for 2025, including growing their user base to 10,000 Members and improving ease of use and confidence in their product.
Listen in as they share insights on team dynamics, agile development, and maintaining a startup mindset while aiming for growth and excellence.
Whether you're a startup enthusiast or building your own business, this episode offers valuable lessons on the entrepreneurial path.
Obviously, Martina is on the web and she's too fast, so you need to catch up with Martina.
Speaker 2:To become one of those things where we're like, oh, I got to mute that sign-up channel.
Speaker 3:What do you sound like to hit that reach 10K this year?
Speaker 2:Watch out because we're coming. We're coming for you. Happy 2025. Martina and Lazar are going to be joining me shortly and we're going to be kicking off this new year with a new episode. Cheers, hello, sir, hello how are you Great?
Speaker 1:How are you doing? Happy New Year.
Speaker 2:Happy New Year. Happy New Year, I'm still waking up. Yeah, happy New Year, happy.
Speaker 1:New Year. I'm still waking up. Yeah, is it 5 am at your place, or? You're six hours behind. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's crazy January 2nd and you're up at 5 am.
Speaker 2:Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's go Hello, hey, hello, hello, welcome to 2025.
Speaker 2:Indeed. Well, technically, both of you should invite me with just a little, maybe, reflection back and then also what the heck is going to happen this year predictions. While I have sips of coffee every now and then, I want to, like Lazar, we haven't had time to to to sort of meet you. Uh, or the, or the audience hasn't had a chance to kind of meet you yet. So, uh, I thought what I'd like to do is just get started by maybe giving a little bit of your background and then, um, and then follow it up with, like I don't know kind of what you thought when you first joined us and when you first, like, heard about Stacklist and came in and started kind of looking at everything, what your initial impressions were.
Speaker 1:Well, I'll start way back when I started as a graphic designer, I guess, which was like my first when I was still studying, my first gigs and stuff. I was just trying to make some money on the side by just doing anything. So I was into MBA and then I joined some editorial staff which needed a graphic designer. So I started doing graphic design and after that, yeah, I just went into coding with web developing and into mobile apps. So I've been doing this for like five, six years, doing mobile development for like four years. So, yeah, pretty much I knew that I wanted to do mobile apps. So once I learned about Flutter, I was like this is the new cool thing. And then I was like, yeah, I need to jump on this and learn it. It was fun because you could develop Android and iOS at the same time, which was fun. So, yeah, that's, I guess, my short background.
Speaker 2:What did you design in originally and what kind of stuff did you work on when you were?
Speaker 1:designing. What did you design in originally and what kind of stuff did you work on when you were designing? I was doing like promo for NBA games because we had like a page and, as I said, editorial stuff which was called NBA Serbia. So we were mostly following guys from Serbia that were playing in the NBA. So all like social media promo stuff, like promoting games when are they playing their stats and stuff like that. So that's mostly what I was doing in some video editing as well.
Speaker 3:So yeah, Lina Kovacevic, did your tech career started off when you figure out you won't be next to Nikola Jokic, or?
Speaker 1:basically yeah. Yeah, I mean I was doing a lot of stats back then for Nikola. He was not as famous as he is now, but yeah, we basically started off at the same time, I would say. But he is now obviously much more famous. But yeah, thanks to Nikola, I started off my career.
Speaker 2:I had what to do in the editorial stuff, so yeah, what made you make the pivot from designing, designing to to coding?
Speaker 1:well, I obviously uh knew that I wanted to do coding from the start, because I was at my computer basically, uh, 24 7. So I had an idea that I would like uh do coding, be a developer at some point, uh, but I had, as martina mentioned, some dreams that I would be a basketball player. Uh, so, but I had, as Martina mentioned, some dreams that I would be a basketball player. So once that died, then I was like, okay, now I need to go to university and stuff, so what will I do? I'm good at maths, okay, let's then just do coding. And I'm at the computer all the time, so let's do coding. So it was kind of natural. And, uh, I never looked back. It's amazing. So yeah, nice, um.
Speaker 2:Well, and both of you are, uh, are well seasoned basketball players. I am not, so if we were to play horse, maybe we could play. Maybe if we were to play uh, then I know, uh, I'm gonna get schooled, but uh, at some point I still wanna uh. Like you know, the three of us have to have to get on a court just because I've heard of all of the um trash all of the accolades from both.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, exactly, and trash talk yeah yeah, I mean trash talk is the best, but you'll see on the court it was better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when did you like what did you think about Stackless when you first joined? Like what were your first sort of like really initial thoughts when you kind of heard about it and then when you kind of jumped in and started looking at the initial code base and things like that and started looking at at the initial code base and things like that, what were your kind of initial thoughts of the, the overall idea and and um and kind of the initial implementation when you jumped in oh well.
Speaker 1:Well, the first uh time I heard about stacklist, it was like or how did nobody came up with it before? Because it was so cool? I was like, yeah, this seems pretty uh useful and intuitive and to use and like, how doesn't it exist already? So, uh, yeah, I was amazed by the idea. I really liked it and that's like the biggest part why I decided to join and to give it a try, because I felt like I would also use it and believe in the project. When you work on something that you also believe in, it's much easier to work. So, yeah, I really liked it.
Speaker 1:And when I jumped into the initial code base and the project itself and the team and everything, I would say that the team is like Stacklist is the best team I've worked on because everybody is so proactive, everybody, the communication is amazing, everybody is responsive, so everything goes fast, which is awesome, especially when you're a startup, I guess, and you need to get things done fast. So that's that's I mean, useful. So, yeah, uh, everything was positive, which is like crazy, maybe, to say when you join first, first time but no negatives as of now and I've been here for like what? Five months. This is so no negative feedback. So that's amazing Nice.
Speaker 2:Cool. What about kind of I can't remember when, what was the initial? We had had some initial code base, originally, right when you joined, and I think we've had like one or two people's kind of. Yeah, we had had, we had had one or two people sort of, you know, start to to build things out, um. But then, um, you've really taken it and kind of made it your own and and kind of refactored everything. Um, what's the? What was the process like when you sort of first jumped in and looked at everything and saw where it was?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, when I first jumped in, the first impression was that the iOS app was way ahead of Android app and the project was using Flutter, which was amazing. And I would say the purpose of Flutter is exactly that cross platform developing, so developing at the same time at the same speed. So the first thing was to just get Android up to speed with the iOS and then catch up to web, because obviously Martina is on the web and she's too fast, so you need to catch up with Martina. So that were the initial thoughts just to get both mobile platforms at the same level and then catch up to web. But, yeah, I would say refactoring was slow, as refactoring is, but sometimes I mean you need to go slow to go fast, which is what we're doing now. So that's awesome.
Speaker 3:And you previously worked in in a bigger company, right yeah yeah, and what would you say? Is the the most like? How would I put it? What's the biggest difference between the two environments like the big cultural wise and the big company, and the procedure that may be there that we don't have, versus here?
Speaker 1:Well, I would say speed. First of all because in bigger companies you need to get approval from approval, from an approval, and then, once you get five approvals, then you can push something In startups.
Speaker 2:It's much faster, so you just you have it and then tell everyone what shipped.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just like see what what happens on prod, so but yeah, it's much faster in startup, I would say. And, as I mentioned, communication, obviously communication is a big difference. Also, I think here are things much more dynamic is a big difference. Also, I think here are things much more dynamic and sometimes that they could be stressful, but I think that's also good because it makes you focus more. But, yeah, I would say, communication and speed is like the main difference between, like, big companies and startups.
Speaker 3:How do you like our YOLO Friday pushes? You know, that's stressful, that's stressful. I mean, you're the only one. If something goes terrible, you need to be present to fix it. It can ruin your weekend.
Speaker 1:You don't have the weekend I mean. So if we wanted to like introduce, martina discussed introducing YOLO weekends as well. We've pushed the brakes for now.
Speaker 2:so that's it just very late post every day on the weekend post dinner yeah, exactly push and then, like, go to bed and sleep soundly.
Speaker 2:I love it. Um, that's great. What about like what, what? What have you felt like what? What are some of the things that we've done that you feel like are that we should keep? I mean, even even as we grow into a team of five or ten or twenty, you know above, like what do you think are the, the like three things that we should sort of keep the same as much as possible?
Speaker 1:That's a hard question. Honestly. I would say, if we can, we should keep the speed, because I think that's like our thing. Like as for now it's like at least pushed one time a week so the users have new experiences every week is fun, so I would say that. But obviously it's hard when you add more people so you then maybe have code reviews and stuff which takes much more time. Also you have like more QA. So we'll see. But I would say speed is, if we can keep it, then that would be awesome. Definitely always talking about the speed, sorry, but I'm just so amazed by it because it's really amazing the speed we're doing it.
Speaker 2:so, for the people watching, the people listening, um, if you don't know, um, I think we actually have a terminator emoji, um, in slack that is specific to use mid journey and combine what is sort like Lazar's face or sort of like Lazar's face plus a Terminator, because Lazar just is a machine. And so we've even had we had a visual design team member that said Lazar was too fast, um and uh, and usually the idea is like we're like hey, we have some ideas about what should be done and we put those in Slack, and then, if you give it like an hour or so, you see this build come through like wait, hold on. We just talked about this stuff and the build is already ready. So, um, that's, this is, this is lazar's mo is. Um, if you think you need to estimate something out, um, you know lazar is probably gonna have it ready in the short term, which is amazing. So, martini, you were gonna, you were going to say something.
Speaker 3:You stole my thought basically Sorry. No, no. But I was going to ask. We downsized a bit this year and I was just going to ask how did you keep your morale high and keep the pace, kept the pace, and how was the process for you in that time?
Speaker 1:uh. Well, as I said, that sort of ties it to the beginning when I came to the project and the speed thing as well. I mean, my speed thing is when you just believe in the project and you enjoy working on it. Uh, then you can just uh while you enjoy working. It's just going fast, which is awesome. And yeah, the morale never went down, honestly, even if when we downscaled because still I was like, yeah, this is awesome, the app is awesome, I believe that it will succeed. So, yeah, I mean it never really impacted me that we downsized the team, so yeah, cool?
Speaker 3:and in this last five, six month, what was the most stressful event for you?
Speaker 1:the most stressful, um, not sure. I think product product hunt was the one, because it went live and it's like we tested everything. But you know how it is with uh, when things need to be perfect, so I was a bit scared if somebody finds something that will like fail and stuff. So that was a bit stressful for me.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and maybe maybe share with, uh, with the listening and viewing team. Um, what was the full ticket count of the problems that were found?
Speaker 3:I think, zero if I'm not yeah for me, most stressful thing was when you broke your hand. That was my most, most stressful, uh, yeah I even forgot about it honestly.
Speaker 1:honestly, I mean, yeah, it didn't impact me. I was just working with one full hand and the other one was helping for the shortcuts and stuff on the keyboard. So yeah, but it wasn't stressful.
Speaker 2:I don't know if we recorded any of this but for everyone watching and listening, there was this one moment where we had this one week Lazar had injured his hand playing basketball, because he's just known for being so highly aggressive on the court and just turns into a beast. But apparently was like what did you do, lazar?
Speaker 2:You went for a ball and just caught it with the tip of your finger right of your yeah, yeah, yeah all, and the finger went the other way totally so yeah yeah, the finger had, uh, had other ideas and so, um, but it was this one week where we were building and I think it was when the three of us, plus Juan who was working on the redesign, were just like kind of chewing through a whole new redesign of the profile in the app and like how the cards look in the app and all these sort of things.
Speaker 2:I think we did two builds that week. All the cards look in the app and all these sort of things. I think we did two builds that week and as we were, as we were like going through it, we were on a call and, of course, lazar's on the call with his hand in a cast, like taking all the feedback, going all right, sounds good, yep, all right, yep, we'll push that too. And it like hit me. It was like wait a wait, a second, how like I had all these mental sort of images of lazard, just sort of like are you dictating into the computer or are like you know, and but just like, just like crunching through like updates with one hand, uh, or like using your elbows, or like I could. I couldn't figure out like how we were getting through all this.
Speaker 1:So, uh, it was, it was magic, honestly yeah, I thought about looking into some AI stuff that could help me, but I didn't uh. So, yeah, it was just uh more. So you think it's magic, but it's just like I don't have what to do because my hand is in a cast, so then I'll just work on the app. So yeah. I remember.
Speaker 3:I remember I was driving in a car with my whole family and I got the text, basically image, from Lazar, like hey, look at this. And I'm like, what is that? Is that you Please tell me? It's not you. And then he sent me like I'm like, oh, my god. And I remember having, like what Kyle said, like bunch of stuff in the pipeline. And I'm like, oh, no, no. And then, and then the next week we were what he mentioned, like we had like two, two or three builds and I'm like, okay, it's not that bad, he can keep that broken hand forever, it's fine, I don't mind. Yeah, crazy.
Speaker 2:Well, we're glad you got your hand back and I'm interested to see, like, as we look forward and maybe let's go around Robin, maybe Martina, you can go first. But, like, as we kick this new year off, today's January 2nd, we just got our first round of funding. So 2024 was amazing. Basically kicking off for a timeline perspective, it was April was really when the when Stackless was starting to be built in earnest, when there was an initial code base of something that started to work and, I think, was it.
Speaker 2:May, martina, when you joined, or was it?
Speaker 3:May.
Speaker 2:May. Yeah, yeah, okay. So it was initially from a timeline perspective. It was April was when we were incorporated and then sort of really started to have external people to myself, sort of start to work on it. Martina joined in May, and then that was, what would that have been? Was it July then when you joined Lazar?
Speaker 1:I think it was August August.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so then we publicly launched in September really opening the doors to whoever wanted to come in and sort of sign up for Stacklist. And then we spent sort of October, november really sort of refining things, pushing out a lot of the mobile updates. Right now I did something yesterday was we still I'm still trying to get my hands around like exactly how many people we have that we would call the user number. But I went into intercom and I I fleshed it down to only really active consider within a 90 day period that have sort of logged in and used it and and tried it, and so it's about 200 and some of the people but we're trying to really get our goal for 2025 is 10,000 people and and so breaking that down, you know we really need to get. You know that's probably between 800 and 1,000 users a month in the app, like specifically focused on or that um, that you're that you think we need to, to sort of zone in on um as we kick off the year?
Speaker 3:that's a tough question, but I would say a lot, of, a lot of things. Like I know we are a small team and we have only a couple of brains and a couple of hands, but like I think we have to focus on multiple stuff, like building still for for you, for our users, um, enhancing the app, integrating ai agents, um, you know, search being way more comprehensive and around the globe, not just my search, but to search all the stackless members. I know. Like making the experience so so seamless. Like share action to just be a one button click and that's it we got you. Come back later, do your thing.
Speaker 3:I think there are a couple of ways that we can improve users' journey in our app so that we can gain more what you send, like to hit that reach 10k this year. I don't know what's the. I've been talking a lot with my family members as well who use our app and to see what they think, because I I guess they would be honest with me, uh, so I'm trying to gather the feedback of what's maybe the biggest hurdle in their journey, um, so that we can solve that and maybe be more likable. I don't know how to say it, but I would say we are on a memorable to, I think is probably memorable things, sticky and memorable.
Speaker 3:Yeah, those things that basically when you browse anything that you just, oh, I need to save this and that you have in your brain okay, I will save it in stack list and that shift needs to happen, um, this year, and it will for sure yeah, that it's only, it's one quick action away.
Speaker 2:If it's steps, then it's not, but if it's just one quick action, yeah, I was thinking like the other day, like, like, um, sending a text, like basically as easy as sort of sending a text, that you could send it and stackless be, like yep, I got it and to improve the entire background stuff.
Speaker 3:Okay, we'll create the card for you. The card, you'll always have an image. Um the card, you'll always have a description of favicon and stuff like that. Maybe. Ai, in the process of the background, when you save like five cards in a row, we will create the stack for you based on the content that you, that you save, and stuff like that you know, just to make it more, more seamless and much more quicker for the end user to to use.
Speaker 1:That's my two cents I think I would just say making cards as easy as possible, saving cards as easy as possible. That is like the thing I would say uh, when you see something, or if we can like integrate stuff with the camera, if you see some product or stuff, you just take a picture and it will save to stack list or, uh, anything really that will just save it. As, martina, you just trigger a stack list action and that's it. You just move your phone away. We saved it, it's in your stack, don't worry about it. Like it takes only three seconds. I would say that will be like the thing, and maybe going to that place is like jumping out of the fridge for people like use stack list, use stack list. Hey, you can save this to Stack. Just be all over the place for people to know about Stacklist.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I like that one which would be like all right, already I get it.
Speaker 3:I got to be on.
Speaker 2:Stacklist. I like that idea. You know I've had that. This is something that would be fun to explore and I think, especially as Apple intelligence really, you know, gets more and more integrated. I was thinking about that with.
Speaker 2:I think I first thought about it, though, when I was in New York and I bought the meta glasses and I was walking down the street and you really realize when you, when you use the meta glasses and you wander around with it, you have have either of you used them. Have you played with them? No, nope, I gotta, I gotta with it. Um, you have either of you used them. Have you played with them? No, nope, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta get. I'm gonna get pairs to you and and to try it. But like, it's one of those things that's the first fully sort of integrated, even more than like the, the, the siri headphones. But like you walk around and there's something amazing about the fact that, like, as you're listening, the sound is so good. It actually sounds like it's triangulated, like in your in the middle of your brain from like a ZXZ, like index perspective, but there's nothing in your ears and the sound is just sort of magical. But what's really interesting is to walk up.
Speaker 2:As you're walking down the street, you turn and, like I saw a restaurant in new york and I said like that it met to take a picture of this, or just press the button and it takes a picture and it stores it in your phone. But immediately I thought like to be able to sort of turn and just say like save this in stack list, that it would take a photo. You have my location, you now have the physical image and so the ability to scan that and sort of read the outside or compare it with location, plus triangulate me from a gps perspective, you pretty much have everything you need to be able to save this thing. Um, I had this mental image where it was like you just get this like emoji thumbs up, where it's kind of like yep got it and you're like, oh my gosh, that's so great, how to be able to just walk around and be like, you know, save this.
Speaker 2:but I think now also that apple intelligence has the button on the side, um, that you hold it down and it triggers this, like you know, and you can basically search with a photo. Same thing. To be able to do it and then to integrate it in with Apple intelligence, to be able to be like, hey, capture this product or this barcode or this or whatever, and to have it go like, yeah, I know what you're going for, I got it, and that it's in your kind of second brain, is would be a really cool, a cool accomplishment to to tackle.
Speaker 2:you know I'm going to be hyper focused on user growth and trying to like figure out how we clock you know X number of people per day, that the signups really start to become one of those things where we're like, oh, I got to mute that signup channel Because you know it's just like, it's just, it's going.
Speaker 2:And for me, thinking about like onboarding, the first 20 seconds you start using something, whether it be the app or the platform or whatever it is that you're it just kind of is fun and enjoyable. How you import a lot of stuff that you've had previously, so that immediately when you start using the app and the platforms, that you've got enough stuff that it feels kind of like yours and that you don't have to feel like, oh, I've been presented with this empty bucket that I now need to spend time filling up, which feels like work. You could just put anything into it and it happens really, really fast. And then also importing things from any other service that you've used, or hooking up another service like a Gmail right that if it could just listen to your Gmail and find any link that came into your Gmail and just store it for you, that it immediately becomes like working for you. I think those just reducing that friction and those barriers would be a huge, a huge thing for this year.
Speaker 2:And then you're right about innovating and like AI agents, where you start to ask it you know, find some stuff for me or put some stuff together or, like you know, watch my friends. You know stacks that have been shared with me and pull those things together. You know stacks that that have been shared with me and and pull those things together, et cetera. Um would be, uh, would be really cool. Um, I think those are going to be some good ones to to watch out for.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think speed is the crucial one, because I was. I was walking the other day and you know, and you have two kids, you don't have much time. So I was walking now and I really wanted to say something and I was hitting the share action, um, and it took me like minute or two to get it. You know, uh, all set up and saved, and I was like I don't have that time, I just need to click, save it as fast as I can and put my phone away because I have two kids to watch, not to go on the street. So I think speed wise is really it's really crucial thing and being able to maybe in the background, sort it and stack it for you. So if I had saved 20 cards in the last 30 minutes, do your thing, you know, go through them and make, make, make a stack for me.
Speaker 2:So yeah, Maybe there's two words that we should focus on. One is speed and the other is confidence. Confidence being, if I send it to Stacklist, like I never worry about it. I, when I log in, like I thought about this, like if we, if we, if we sent a list of 20 links, if you imported a list of 20 links in, um, I don't know, a spreadsheet or something like that, or you forwarded an email with 20 links, that it pulls those in, but you're so confident that, like, when you go back to your desktop or on the mobile phone and you see what's been imported, you just never think about it, like it just is right. Um, those two things would be such a high like. Getting those two things right would, I think, really nail it this year for speed and confidence. What do you think, what are your thoughts about this year If you look beyond this week? What are some predictions that you think you're gonna have? What does November of this year look like?
Speaker 3:What does the product look like this week? What are some?
Speaker 2:predictions that you think you're gonna have. Like what does november of this year look like? What is that? What does the product look like? What does the platform look like? What does the team look like? What do you what? What milestones do you think we've hit? Who's gonna go first?
Speaker 3:you go me okay.
Speaker 1:Uh, well, let's say, if we have a successful 2025, then when you go to instagram to some influencers that have their uh link tree and stuff, it's not link tree, it's stacklistapp, and then you go and see all the links and stuff. So hopefully, that that's the the. You know, the thing we do this year that we have made it easier for some people to just show their links as well. It's not always just saving stuff, it's just it's showcasing your stuff as well. So, uh, yeah, I would say, and team wise, uh well, I would be happy for some additions if needed. That means that we have more stuff to do. That means that we've improved and we need more people. So I'm not going to say numbers, obviously, but yeah, if we need to improve and work more, that means we're doing the right thing. So I'm all good for expanding the team if needed.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, yeah, I would say I have a lot of things on my mind. I have all the goods and the bad, the bets, like all the highs and the lows, because those are inevitable in the startup. You know you go like this and then you have to hit some hurdle and then you're like, oh my god, why? Uh, so a lot of things happening in my mind these couple of days, um, but I see it growing and growing and, you know, just building all the stuff that we want to build. I see happy users on the other end. So I see a lot of nice images in my head. The mobile app exploding. You know everybody's downloading. We have a zillion of reviews on the App Store and the Play Store.
Speaker 2:All the kids are talking about it.
Speaker 3:All the, the, all the cookies are, you know, in there, so you don't have to worry about it. So yeah, I would say just to top my monologue off, if we are going to expand, then maybe the title you have is not correct. Right, you should be a mobile lead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree. So how about we do that now?
Speaker 1:I don't have the words. We'll see we'll see.
Speaker 2:No we should do that now. What do you think, Martina?
Speaker 3:Let's do it? Yeah, no, we will not see it All. Right, we'll see it now All right.
Speaker 2:So, lazar, that's it. We want to make sure that, going into this year, your title is appropriate, so mobile development lead sounds much more fitting.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Thank you, this is a pleasure and an honor. So, yeah, you see I'm startling, so I'm lost for words.
Speaker 2:I think there's one more thing that we want to also add to that which is founding member, because you know you've really been. I think you not only exude the sort of qualities that we want to make sure that we it's funny, martina I've talked about some roles that we need to open up and I think when we talk about the roles and the team members who need to join, your name comes up being like you know it's like Lazar.
Speaker 2:We just need to get someone like Lazar. We just need to get someone like Lazar. So I think it's always so critical and so important when you're building a team like this and you also have limited funds.
Speaker 2:we need to be getting to a seed round of, you know, a pre-seed round of two or three million, or getting to a seed round at some point of four or five million that, like right now, we're still like you know, it's still little bits of resources, and so it's always a key that whoever sort of comes into the fold, you know, has that same sort of and I, you know, I can tell when you're it feels like you're always kind of thinking about it and pushing new things and trying to push the app on its own without being asked, and you're always so proactive and sort of figuring out where we can take it and those sort of things.
Speaker 2:And I think that's it's not, it's not something that I think in a bigger company that is sort of hailed as, like you know, different and and and stand out, but in a startup, when you're really trying to push things forward past bigger companies that have, you know, bigger budgets and bigger teams, it's, it's a necessity, and and. So I think you know, I think it's it's only fitting that you also have a title of founding member. You know, and, and the apps are yours, the apps are your, your babies. So, um, um, so yeah, we're excited that you're, you're, you're on the team and and and with us on the journey, um, as a, as a mobile development lead and as a founding member, thank you.
Speaker 1:uh, thank you for all these kind words, but I would just want to say that, uh, it's just easy to work with you guys, and it's a pleasure to work with you guys, so that's what makes me better.
Speaker 2:Because of the GIFs. Right, Really, it's all the Slack GIFs and all the shenanigans.
Speaker 3:And trash talks, and trash talks.
Speaker 2:Exactly Nice. Well, I would say I think it's, you know, it's. It's fun to start off this year in such high, high expectations and high hopes and and and things like that. I will say that we should also brace for what will be a fairly difficult year, going to have lots of team members come and go. We're going to have and that's great. I don't think it should be something that we should be thinking about that as a like you know, how do we keep our spirits high or how do we sort of, how do we make it through this? Like this should be the expectation. We will have lots of people come and go because we're going to be trying lots of people out. We're going to be essentially like recruiting and trialing lots of people to see if they fit, you know, in the team, and that should be the expectation, because we only want to make sure that we're bringing people in and that people are coming on the ride with us, um, if they kind of fit, you know, I think.
Speaker 2:I think having the skill sets is going to be important, but most important for me is that I think just the vibe and the what they bring to the team and the culture and the culture is both respectful but also the sort of fun and optimistic and we're not adding people to the team that are sort of pessimistic in the way of like, oh, I don't know if this is going to work, or you know why are we trying this or whatever?
Speaker 2:But really that like that feeling of trying everything and everything is possible and I don't know, so let's see. And, just like you know, iterating with us, but also in that sort of fun and pushing us. I love this idea of Noah Kagan, who founded AppSumo and who had worked with Mark Zuckerberg, really had this great email that he wrote about Mark and his philosophies and one of the things that he had said is that he wanted to only hire people that he would feel comfortable wanting to work for. So if we hire, even if it's a junior QA person or Lazar, if we were to hire somebody as an additional mobile developer to work with you that you would almost want to work for them, that you would be happy working for them, because they're also just pushing you and you're learning stuff from them. And I think we've got to make sure that we're we're thinking about it in that sense and that we're never really bringing someone onto the team who is um, oh, my, my let'll see.
Speaker 2:Camera decided to.
Speaker 3:But that was the same thing I was telling Lazar in our 101 this morning. So I mean product, we are set, we all believe in product, but people are what makes even the product ship on the next level. So the excitement when you open a laptop and have huddles or something to collaborate with people, that's something that we strive for and want to see other people that we bring on.
Speaker 2:Well, and not, I think, also not having people who sort of ask what's next, what should I work on next, or or how should we solve this? I think it's the. It should be the opposite. It is I'm already one step ahead of you. It should be the opposite. It is I'm already one step ahead of you and I'm telling you how this is. I'm like I've already figured it out. I've already done my homework and I've already figured it out and I've already told you how this should be. You know, and those sorts of things, I think, are the only way that we're going to stay ahead of of being able, like you, like you said, of being able to ship so quick and so fast, is not have anybody sort of hanging around, you know, wondering either what's next or asking us, but sort of almost staying ahead of all of us and we're all sort of in a good way competing for seeing how fast we can sort of like stay ahead of the curve, you know, and and things like that.
Speaker 2:So, um, and we're gonna have up some ups and downs, the product hunt stuff. I think we should figure out how to also, you know, keep that level of like drive um and and, but also stay authentically connect. I want to make sure that we're all sort stay authentically connected. I want to make sure that we're all sort of authentically connected to the users that are using this. So, while I don't want to weigh us all down with, like answering tickets and those sort of things, I want to make sure that we also are not so focused in linear, now that we're away from Jira, that we're so focused in linear that we're just chewing through stuff, and a lot of times what happens is you sort of go heads down and you're just kind of focused on stuff like this so much that you get in this like kind of bubble of what you think is right that we were also sort of tapped into the users, and so I think it would be also good and not to be prescriptive, but we should also figure out how each one of us maybe it's once a week interviews a user you know, or or same for you as ours.
Speaker 2:Like is, find a mobile user you know, find our, our, our sort of best iOS or Android user and and reach out to them on on intercom and be like hey, I want to pick your brain for 20 minutes. Do you've got time to talk? You know, we'll give you a gift card or something and just ask, like, what about this? Or what's the most, what's the, what's the parts that are the worst and how do we fix it? And like and like trying to stay really, really connected, um, to the people that are using it and listening to those things, and and finding good ways to get that feedback, because we don't want to stay in our own little bubble about what we think is interesting. Um, we want to sort of make sure we're staying like hyper-connected to the people who are using it. So we should staying hyper-connected to the people who are using it. So we should figure out some good ways to integrate that into our flow to stay out of our own matrix.
Speaker 3:That's for sure. I think I told you that on our first Building Stackless podcast when you asked me like, in the future, what I aspire for is that's something that I would like for us to never lose that listening to the end user. I mean, the users are what we are building for, so that should always be our focus, you know, to make it better for the users, not for ourselves. I mean, maybe I would use some feature, but if 200,000 users would not use it, then it's pretty obvious. So, yeah, I agree, cool, amazing would not use it? Then it's pretty obvious. So, yeah, I agree cool, amazing.
Speaker 2:Well, here's to a an amazing 2025, and I think we should do this once a month. Um, maybe at the very beginning of a month, let's just sort of look back and see what we've accomplished, you know, based on what we thought was going to happen, but also like what we've, what we've done in the previous month and where we're headed um, so we can kind of gut check and check in on and and as fast as we move a month is like forever. So uh it'll be.
Speaker 2:It'll be amazing to see um sort of you know, month after month. So we'll have to do this again soon.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh my gosh and I'm gonna have to go google I know what the heck.
Speaker 2:Uh, I'll have to go talk to somebody about this. Anyways, um, cool, and any last words just look out for us in 2025.
Speaker 1:I guess that's out because we're coming we're coming for you yeah.